Category: Geeks r Us
I know that a lot of you use some form of linux, and I would like to try it as well. I wanted to know if a version exists that meets most if not all of these functions:
1. Is free
2. has built-in speech (including installing)
3. can run on a mac book (possibly a boot to USB or similar)
4. includes some form of documentation to get me started.
Thanks in advance.
Hi,
May I suggest the Vinux remix of Ubuntu. I use it as my primary os, and think it meets the requirements you set out here. It can be booted and run from live dvd and usb, has accessibility, via braille and/or speech, for installation, use, maintanence, shutdown. There is both a quick-start guide, and full-fledged manual available on the installation media and on the above web site. It, being Linux, is free!
HTH,
Dave
Vinux...
I wrote a pretty long article on this. I recognize this post is old, but it was mentioned in a conversation and I thought this worth pointing out.
http://tds-solutions.net/blog/?p=50
I recommend Ubuntu if you want a GUI--I hear the new installation has an accessible bit to it, if you just want cli get the debian cli speech cd or talking arch. Any of the three mentioned are a lot less bloated, and are by far more secure and clean than Vinux.
I am curious how much you actually do with Linux? My days of using it go back to either servers - in the industrial sense - or just general hacking around. I know someone out here who uses it but has trouble with professional applications, she can't use Go to Meeting, etc. I guess Open Office would cover most of the rest. But how well does any of that work for blind people? I'm still scheptical of Linux as a mainstream product for most users because it doesn't seem to have the support for tasks everybody does. It is fun to tinker with, for those of us who know how. Someday I may take my wife's laptop and make a Ubuntu machine out of it, but not till she has a new one. I wouldn't dare put her or any other basic user needing to get work done on a Linux system. As I said, correct me if I'm wrong.
I agree with LeoGuardian that Linux is not for the average Windows users. There are similarities but there are too many differences. Ubuntu is so far the easiest for "Windows Natives" to use... this is just my opinion of coarse. As far as access for the blind, I have not played with software enough yet.
I am trying Vinix in a virtual machine environment. So far I probly do not get it or maybe I am doing something wrong. It loads orka talks then when I get passed the log in, I am clueless.
I should perhaps clarify:
Hackers forget that basic users, be they Windows or whatever, are not interested in fiddle-faddling around with their machines. In fact, it means less productivity, loss of income, and all sorts of other problems. This applies to computers, mobile homes, cars, etc. For some people, using the computer is their goal, not a means to an end. For the rest of us, including many computer professionals of all types, what system you use is a means to an end. Consequently, if the platform (in this case Linux) doesn't support the tasks you need to perform, you're not likely to use it. That would be about as silly as showing up with a Craftsman Quickwrench when the task of uncloggging the kitchen sink requires a very sturdy pipe wrench.
Silly ignorant people forget this. Either silly and ignorant, or so well taken care of they don't have deadlines to meet, tasks to get done, bills to pay, like the rest of the population.
There are lots of productivity apps for Linux, especialy in the Ubuntu world. There is, for instance, the Ubuntu Studio suite, with all sorts of multi-media tools, some of which may not be accessible, however. There is an education suite called Edubuntu, for k-12 school work. I am involved with a group of folks from Harvard, who put this onto donated laptops, and send them to orphanage schools in Mexico. There is a spicific app for managing a medical practice. Libre Office can do all that MS Office or I-Works can do, and can produce documents compatible with those suites. I found hundreds of ham radio apps in the Ubuntu repos. The email programs Evolution and Thunderbird do all one should ever need, with Evolution a drop-in replacement for MS Outlook. I have entrepreneur friends who run their businesses with only Ubuntu. In two of Boston's public housing projects, the workstations and server are all Ubuntu. I use Ubuntu, the list could go on...
Well, that is refreshing to note. Of course, Unix distros still do, and will continue to, dominate the server space. But these are all good things to know.
Linux in general is an awesome operating system. People talk about Windows sucks and Windows is less secure, so here's my points.
First, a lot of the people that are switching to Vinux are either having it crammed down their throats or just want to jump on the band wagon. Linux itself is not more secure than Windows; they all have their own sets of problems. Linux does separate the root user from everything else, which is a huge bonus. I find it helarious though, that people switch because "Windows is insecure," and jump to Vinux, which actively discourages updates, which is a huge key in security.
Now, lets move on. I've used Vinux a bit before I found these problems with it. Things are accessible, but there are things that still need a whole lot of work. Just ask someone, for example how you can install Skype on Linux without sight. Firefox and Orca still have problems, and thunderbird still has it's set of problems with orca. That's not to say it's not a good operating system--I usually find myself with two or three shells open to my servers all the time, which I use for a ton of different tasks. But, so far we still have a lot more to do in terms of accessibility. It's an awesome operating system, but it really isn't for the people that just want to get on the computer and get their work done. Something that the Vinux folks don't understand, and something that a lot of people don't get is this -is- Linux. I don't care how much pointing and clicking you can do with the pretty GUI, I don't care that you don't need to know about the command line until things crash, but when you do want something, you will eventually find yourself at a cli or editing a configuration file. It doesn't have to be now, it doesn't have to be tomorrow, but it -will- happen. Willingness to put forth the do diligence and read the documentation is going to make or break your Linux experience, which ever distro you go for--for some, such as Ubuntu the do diligence isn't required.
Now, Linux has it's place in a couple of settings. First, if you're sighted or just like tinkering and have the technical knowledge and/or are willing to work for that knowledge, it's awesome. i love the flexability I get with Linux.
Linux is also great for a server. I pay $20 per server, for a grand total of $40 for two servers through Linode, and I Have the lamp (slightly altered) stack deployed on both for web services such as my blog, etc. I just finished last night configuring my email server so that I get imap, and all of my mail is filtered into separate folders. It is awesome as a server because as was already mentioned here, it's free. Windows on the otherhand requires licensing fees to run as a server, and there's no way in hell you're going to run windows server 2010 on 512 MB of ram. It is also much much easier to secure. Right now my security, at least on my stable server has multiple layers; starting with a free firewall called Iptables. From there I have a lot more in place to at least hinder, if not prevent a dedicated attacker from gaining access.
Hopefully some of the information here helps.
I misworded something, just wanted to fix. The do dilligence is still required in Ubuntu, you just get screened off from it. It will happen though. I find that the people that use Ubuntu forever without knowing or caring about the shell crash harder than anyone else, because when it comes time to fix the crash and they do have to go into the scary shell, they're clueless. Just my views though.
To sorressean,
You say that Vinux has accessibility issues with Firefoxand Thunderbird. I don't disagree. I use Vinux 3.0 64 bit based off of Ubuntu 10.04.3 updated for my Oracle Database Administration labs. It was interesting to get it running, took way more trial and error than I'd like. Thank you Oracle for not supporting Ubuntu. I could maybe switch to Debian after I get my certs to see the differences in installing Oracle on it vs Ubuntu. I don't expect any corp that I work for to switch from RHEL 5 or 6 or any other Linux distro just for my accessibility issues. The only accommidation I might get is to be able to bring in a Linux only laptop that has my Linux setup the way I want it and use sqlplus on it to connect and manage the databases I need to. All of the Java gui apps that Oracle runs are not seen by Orca, and the information that I would need to get them to work is not easy to find online. I don't want to switch to Arch for the following reason, it takes too long to set up and configure. I have a working setup that I can use for now. It has nothing to do with the fact that I don't want to read the docs. I've done so and I don't have the time to devote to it. Never mind the fact that GNOME 3 has serious accessibility issues, which are hopefully fixed in the near future.
i love linux and use both that and windows i have my decated server which runs centos5.6 and my home box runs debian testing. Linux isn't for someone who is not tech savy. I am going to be offering linux training soon hopefully soon.
Linux users are not just the techies. What of all those people using Android? Remember, if you're using a Levelstar Icon or Brailleplus, you're running Linux. You Macos people are running BSD, which is a *NIX operating system. Those kids in Mexico, who get the donated laptops with Ubuntu, I mentioned in my last post, will never use the "scary shell"; they most- likely, won't even be on the internet. I think there is a community of so-called "power users" of Linux who, for whatever reasons, don't want Linux to ever be for the "masses"; I find it analogus to the old radio hams who cling to the Morse requirement as some sort of moral "filter" or "character-building" skill...
Droid does use Linux, but it's a modified version, and it's not even Linux, but it's the Kernel.
OSX is not built on BSD. Well, not fully. It's a mixture of a BSD and Mach kernel. Either way though, BSD is -not- Linux.
Am curious about an eyes-free guide to an install of either Debian or Ubuntu. Eyes are just not an option for me, as those around are very technically not savvy, and like many nontechnical people don't do well with synonomizing, e.g. can't see there's an icon called 'Quit' if you tell them there may be one called 'Exit'.
The problem I find is there's a lot of evangelizing going on about pro or anti Vinux, and yet no real step-by-step guides for an eyes-free setup. Have my own reasons for not being intrested in Vinux, namely this will be for my modest ham radio shack / hopefully Military Amateur Radio Service, and so I would want to get updates whenever wherever.
Back in the 'old days' when it was Speakup on a floppy, you could download that, boot from said floppy, load your distro, do what you had to do, etc. That was a dozen years ago or so. From Googling, it looks like the new kids have lost the art of basic explanation in favor of platform evangelism.
If no such guide exists, and I can find enough parts to put one together, I will put said steps here as well as find somewhere else to post them.
I imagine the amateur radio software probably works pretty well as most of what is needed is in text.
Anyway if I've just missed something obvious / you know of a guide to an eyes-free setup of any flavor out there I'd be interested.
What was I thinking? @DaveH is using this distro for amateur radio, and has been in that field for longer than some have been alive. Stepped over that one I guess.
So no eyes-freee install guide will equal get a Vinux and burn it, at least for the isolated uses to which I will put it.
I read the article - rather more of a rant - on the anti-Vinux persuasion.
For non-Linux people, there are tons of distros of Linux out there which are compiled vor any number of purposes, Vinux being only one such distro. The only cramming of throats one can see is by the writer of the afore-mentioned article.
The following is for people like that / software evangelists, etc. If you want to convince someone they can install Ubuntu eyes-free, rather than write an opinion piece, why not a set of steps? Here I'll make it easy for you:
To start Ubuntu blind:
1. Once you've downloaded and burned the live
CD image, insert it into your CD/DVD drive
and reboot your computer. After about 15
seconds you can press space to go to the
language selection list. At this point, you
have about 30 seconds to perform the next
step. If you do not perform the next step
quickly, Ubuntu will automatically continue
booting.
2. Press enter to select English.
3. In order to enable accessibility options,
press F5. This will cause a list of accessibility
options to appear:
• None (has focus)
• High Contrast
• Magnifier
• Screen Reader
• Keyboard Modifiers
• On-screen Keyboard
4. If you want to try Orca, you should press
3 to give focus to Screen Reader, followed
by Enter to indicate your selection. You
will be returned to the boot options screen
then press Enter again to indicate you would
like to boot.
5. Within a few minutes, Ubuntu will be loaded
with Orca running and you will hear a greeting
such as "Welcome to Orca. Orca Preferences.
Tab list. General page."
6. The CD drive should also stop spinning
at this point. If the CD drive stopped spinning
and you did not hear a greeting from Orca,
you might need to try to reboot from the
CD and repeat the steps for selecting the
Screen Reader.
7. Now, the graphical desktop is up and running,
Orca is active, and the Orca Preferences
dialog has focus. The Orca Preferences dialog
is a multi-page dialog with several pages
that allows you to configure your settings.
Like many things Linux, the credits list for that description is probably longer than the description itself. I found it, made a note of it for myself in case I need to install Ubuntu, and reposted it here.
Real-world steps are really necessary, especially for an eyes-free install and especially for a new Linux user. After all, if you did need to use someone with vision, Linux is not easy for the average person to help you with.
I personally got a copy of the TalkingArch install, and will install it on minimalist hardware for my ham radio operations. It's not for everybody, though, and that includes a vast majority of people I know. Eyes has very little to do with it. It's setup looks to be much more intuitive than the old setup.tty stuff from the days when some of you were still in diapers. But each distro, and apparently Vinux is no exception, is very often bundled for the needs of a set of users. I did look briefly at a minimalist Amateur Radio distro which comes with a ton of our packages pre-installed: tempting for such a basic and inexperienced amateur operator such as myself. But as there was no mention of the Accessibility toolkits I didn't want to find myself driving blind.
Many people now complain about bloat in any number of distros, Ubuntu standard editions being no exception. But so-called bloat is often what makes it easy for new beginners who want the environment for one or two purposes, but aren't or haven't been system administrators. By system administrators I don't mean kids that write blogs about people learning command-line: I mean actually managing infrastructures / deployments / groups of users, etc. Fortunately in my case I were one in another previous careeer existence, so what I lack in knowledge in the amateur radio hobby I have in admin, so Archlinux will be fine for me. And I'll get an education in some things that six months ago I never even knew existed. That's what keeps life interesting.
I'm not sure when you last looked at Vinux, but, there is a quick-start guide one can read, while the distro's live media is running, or on the web site, using your favorite browser. I now use a mainline Linux distro that is even easier to install, eyes-free, than is Ubuntu. Try Trisquel/GNU Linux If you get the dvd image of the I18N Edition, all you need do is put the dvd into a machine that will boot such live sessions, turn said machine on, and wait for Orca to start talking;do not press any buttons! When Orca is talking, hit 'space' to open the preferences dialogue, and configure as you like. That done, go to your desktop with 'windows-key+d' and find the 'install trisquel' icon. Hit 'enter', and the wizard will guide you. If you like, you can try Trisquel, all you like, before installation. Trisquel is a derivative of Ubuntu, but without the new Unity interface or any proprietary software.
Ought to have clarified but yes, DaveH is right: like the distribution itself, Vinux documentation is easy to find / figure out, etc.
Thanks for the note on that install. This is really great: more Linux distros with immediate access. And when I say access, I don't only mean for me without eyes, but for a majority of people who are never going to be really technically savvy. This is how software gets really popular: taking it to the users in a way they can understand it.
This makes me want to go try it again, I was runninng vinix in a vertual machine until my 256 dwendled down to 40 gigs. Well off to try the linix that was mentioned 2 poste above mine.
If you wish to give Trisquel a spin, be sure to get the i18N edition of 5.0, for the immediate accessibility I mentioned. In Trisquel, you will not have some of the convenience shortcuts you may have become used to in Linux, but, they can be easily added.
I use Linux (Gentoo, specifically) as my main OS. I've been using it for almost a year now (5 days to go) and love it. Gentoo isn't for the non-techies, but it suits me just fine, and has really good docs. I'm also a heavy CLI user. I have gnome3, but the only thing I'm ever in an xserver for is firefox, and that's on the rare occasions that emacspeak/w3m doesn't get the job done. And yes, I love emacspeak too. :)
Hi everyone,
I am also wanting to try out the linux route since I have gotten in to Ham radio as a hobby, and wish to use a program called chirp to configure my radios. Here's a question I have. I'm running a mac book pro with windows 7 and the mac OS. Can I also install linux on to the mac and boot in to it like I would boot in to windows?
Thanks,
Chris Harrington